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with international law. so are these drone strikes illegal? do you believe? >> these drone strikes the way they're being carried out is illegal. >> bill: that's a pretty bold statement. the united states is breaking the law. >> well, the only time the united states, outside a battlefield area the only time the united states or any country can use lethal force against someone is in self-defense. and what we know from a leaked document, a leaked legal document that is called the white paper. they have this view of what self-defense means. a view of self-defense is not -- would not be recognized by any court in the united states and no court in the world. it basically says that the test for self-defense is you have to be stopping an imminent threat. but here they're saying imminent does not mean it is about to happen. imminent just means there's some kind of pattern of behavior. >> bill: some day you think it might happen. >> yeah. >> bill: i think it is extremely important issue. i'm glad you're out in front. i think we've got to keep the pressure on and not only be careful about those drones ove
're looking at is f.b.i. officers who are taking the shrapnel. there's apparently over 1,000 law enforcement officials in the area now combined, which is obviously a huge number. now, we were talking about the bomb there. abc had a report about these kind of i.e.d.'s. we've seen these all over the world. let's take a look here. cenk: that's white smoke the damaging shrapnel tells of an improvised explosive device. we've seen what they do to armored vehicles, tanks and foot patrols in afghanistan. the smaller bombs as in boston are not strong enough to damage structures, but can be deadly to anyone in the kill zone. you can see and hear those dangerous projectiles exploding into the area. the actual blast of the bomb was not strong, mostly causing injury from low flying debris, leading authorities to call it a small, mobile i.e.d. cenk: that's really interesting. i'm here with my panel ben hank kits, mark thompson and michael hastings. does that say anything one way or the other? >> for sure. the numbers in afghanistan 10,000i.e.d.'s a year. i was in a vehicle that got hit by an i.e.d. it did
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